Cleveland vs Golden St (Finals)

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May 30, 2017 4:40pm
gilp5
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trapp76 wrote:

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

So let's say Warriors win the series convincingly and relatively easily (which I doubt but it could happen).  Assume they re-sign everyone and there is no reason to think they won't continue to win it at that level for the next several years.

Name me a team other than the Cavs who should not start a re-build, if your standard is Championship or Bust?

There are really 3 options every team has: double down to build a superteam around a current all star, stand pat or blow up the team to rebuild around youth.

Most teams will stand pat with their current roster and draft picks, not trying to pay the luxury tax and will just wait out until LeBron retires.

The only teams I can see where it is worth to double down are the Celtics and Spurs. The Cs have cap room and trade assets where they could bring in two all stars. The Spurs could get someone to replace Parker but would have to give up assets.

Is it worth it for the Clipps to double down? As I showed in another thread, resigning CP and Blake and trading for Carmelo would put total salary and luxury tax over $200 million. Why would they do that? Could they beat the Cavs and Warriors? Probably not when 3 starters are over 30. Then the window for this team would be only 2 seasons before the over 30 guys start to decline. Then they are looking at five bad years just to get back high draft picks, then another five years for the talent to develop.

Should the Clips "blow it up" and get rid of everyone for draft picks? No one has proposed that. At the least, the team needs to choose either CP or Blake, not both, and use the savings to build a more balanced roster.

You don't understand the value of a star player in the NBA..........and any rule you have for the Spurs should also apply to the Clippers. They are in very similar situations.

Celtics are in their own unique situation.

Celtics would be a 7 or 8 seed in the West. I don't think I would bet on them to beat OKC in a 7 game series. 

May 31, 2017 10:01am
trapp76
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ClipperSisyphus wrote:

trapp76 wrote:

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

So let's say Warriors win the series convincingly and relatively easily (which I doubt but it could happen).  Assume they re-sign everyone and there is no reason to think they won't continue to win it at that level for the next several years.

Name me a team other than the Cavs who should not start a re-build, if your standard is Championship or Bust?

There are really 3 options every team has: double down to build a superteam around a current all star, stand pat or blow up the team to rebuild around youth.

Most teams will stand pat with their current roster and draft picks, not trying to pay the luxury tax and will just wait out until LeBron retires.

The only teams I can see where it is worth to double down are the Celtics and Spurs. The Cs have cap room and trade assets where they could bring in two all stars. The Spurs could get someone to replace Parker but would have to give up assets.

Is it worth it for the Clipps to double down? As I showed in another thread, resigning CP and Blake and trading for Carmelo would put total salary and luxury tax over $200 million. Why would they do that? Could they beat the Cavs and Warriors? Probably not when 3 starters are over 30. Then the window for this team would be only 2 seasons before the over 30 guys start to decline. Then they are looking at five bad years just to get back high draft picks, then another five years for the talent to develop.

Should the Clips "blow it up" and get rid of everyone for draft picks? No one has proposed that. At the least, the team needs to choose either CP or Blake, not both, and use the savings to build a more balanced roster.

You don't understand the value of a star player in the NBA..........and any rule you have for the Spurs should also apply to the Clippers. They are in very similar situations.

Celtics are in their own unique situation.

Neither CP, Blake or DJ are franchise players that you build around. 

You're dumb.

May 31, 2017 10:01am
trapp76
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gilp5 wrote:

trapp76 wrote:

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

So let's say Warriors win the series convincingly and relatively easily (which I doubt but it could happen).  Assume they re-sign everyone and there is no reason to think they won't continue to win it at that level for the next several years.

Name me a team other than the Cavs who should not start a re-build, if your standard is Championship or Bust?

There are really 3 options every team has: double down to build a superteam around a current all star, stand pat or blow up the team to rebuild around youth.

Most teams will stand pat with their current roster and draft picks, not trying to pay the luxury tax and will just wait out until LeBron retires.

The only teams I can see where it is worth to double down are the Celtics and Spurs. The Cs have cap room and trade assets where they could bring in two all stars. The Spurs could get someone to replace Parker but would have to give up assets.

Is it worth it for the Clipps to double down? As I showed in another thread, resigning CP and Blake and trading for Carmelo would put total salary and luxury tax over $200 million. Why would they do that? Could they beat the Cavs and Warriors? Probably not when 3 starters are over 30. Then the window for this team would be only 2 seasons before the over 30 guys start to decline. Then they are looking at five bad years just to get back high draft picks, then another five years for the talent to develop.

Should the Clips "blow it up" and get rid of everyone for draft picks? No one has proposed that. At the least, the team needs to choose either CP or Blake, not both, and use the savings to build a more balanced roster.

You don't understand the value of a star player in the NBA..........and any rule you have for the Spurs should also apply to the Clippers. They are in very similar situations.

Celtics are in their own unique situation.

Celtics would be a 7 or 8 seed in the West. I don't think I would bet on them to beat OKC in a 7 game series. 

That is 100% correct, but they have the number 1 pick this year, and may have it next year as well, which puts them in a unique situation.

May 31, 2017 10:19am
ClipperSisyphus
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trapp76 wrote:

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

trapp76 wrote:

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

So let's say Warriors win the series convincingly and relatively easily (which I doubt but it could happen).  Assume they re-sign everyone and there is no reason to think they won't continue to win it at that level for the next several years.

Name me a team other than the Cavs who should not start a re-build, if your standard is Championship or Bust?

There are really 3 options every team has: double down to build a superteam around a current all star, stand pat or blow up the team to rebuild around youth.

Most teams will stand pat with their current roster and draft picks, not trying to pay the luxury tax and will just wait out until LeBron retires.

The only teams I can see where it is worth to double down are the Celtics and Spurs. The Cs have cap room and trade assets where they could bring in two all stars. The Spurs could get someone to replace Parker but would have to give up assets.

Is it worth it for the Clipps to double down? As I showed in another thread, resigning CP and Blake and trading for Carmelo would put total salary and luxury tax over $200 million. Why would they do that? Could they beat the Cavs and Warriors? Probably not when 3 starters are over 30. Then the window for this team would be only 2 seasons before the over 30 guys start to decline. Then they are looking at five bad years just to get back high draft picks, then another five years for the talent to develop.

Should the Clips "blow it up" and get rid of everyone for draft picks? No one has proposed that. At the least, the team needs to choose either CP or Blake, not both, and use the savings to build a more balanced roster.

You don't understand the value of a star player in the NBA..........and any rule you have for the Spurs should also apply to the Clippers. They are in very similar situations.

Celtics are in their own unique situation.

Neither CP, Blake or DJ are franchise players that you build around. 

You're dumb.

And you are ugly and your mother doesn't love you.

May 31, 2017 11:10am
JGlanton
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After the worst pair of conf final playoffs in NBA history (9-1 W-L, total avg game margin +36), I hope we see some very competitive games with dramatic finishes. And healthy players. I don't care who wins.

May 31, 2017 2:46pm
Clipps
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ClipperSisyphus wrote:

trapp76 wrote:

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

trapp76 wrote:

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

So let's say Warriors win the series convincingly and relatively easily (which I doubt but it could happen).  Assume they re-sign everyone and there is no reason to think they won't continue to win it at that level for the next several years.

Name me a team other than the Cavs who should not start a re-build, if your standard is Championship or Bust?

There are really 3 options every team has: double down to build a superteam around a current all star, stand pat or blow up the team to rebuild around youth.

Most teams will stand pat with their current roster and draft picks, not trying to pay the luxury tax and will just wait out until LeBron retires.

The only teams I can see where it is worth to double down are the Celtics and Spurs. The Cs have cap room and trade assets where they could bring in two all stars. The Spurs could get someone to replace Parker but would have to give up assets.

Is it worth it for the Clipps to double down? As I showed in another thread, resigning CP and Blake and trading for Carmelo would put total salary and luxury tax over $200 million. Why would they do that? Could they beat the Cavs and Warriors? Probably not when 3 starters are over 30. Then the window for this team would be only 2 seasons before the over 30 guys start to decline. Then they are looking at five bad years just to get back high draft picks, then another five years for the talent to develop.

Should the Clips "blow it up" and get rid of everyone for draft picks? No one has proposed that. At the least, the team needs to choose either CP or Blake, not both, and use the savings to build a more balanced roster.

You don't understand the value of a star player in the NBA..........and any rule you have for the Spurs should also apply to the Clippers. They are in very similar situations.

Celtics are in their own unique situation.

Neither CP, Blake or DJ are franchise players that you build around. 

You're dumb.

And you are ugly and your mother doesn't love you.

Don't talk to your daughter like that.
Jun 2, 2017 6:28pm
CorkScrew
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So after the trouncing of Game 1, someone gave me 7-1 odds with the Cavs and I took it for $100.

Good bet? Bad bet? Set your wishes and emotions aside and let me know if I did well to take the bet.

(My thinking: If these two teams played seven finals series, would the Warriors win all seven series? I don't think so. I think they may win 4 or five of them, but not 7. So 7-1 odds definitely in my favor. Am I right?)

 

Jun 2, 2017 6:47pm
mannycoon
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The Cavs were getting creamed at the start of the series last year and came back, so 7-1 is probably pretty good.

Jun 2, 2017 7:23pm
V-Ice
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Great bet Corkscrew 

Jun 3, 2017 2:00pm
Clippers1121
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The Warriors won game one already.  The Cavs would win two series starting out even.  So saying they could come back once with a one game disadvantage is probably a fair bet.  I wouldn't say it was good.  Just OK.  I was at the Venecian sports book on Wednesday and it was Warriors -250 for the series.  I was there the next day and it was Warriors -265 for the series.  I bet the pro gamblers are all over the Warriors for the series win.  Now the odds are Warriors -700 and Cavs are +500.  So actually getting the Cavs at +700 is real good.  The guy actually gave you the Casino's cut of the proceeds of the bet.  But he got the same odds the Casinos would have given him so he did not do that bad either. 


JR Smith, Kyle Korver, or Channing Frye really need to score some points in this series for the Cavs to have a chance.  Thompson and Iguodala are going to be on Irving the whole series.  Green will be on Love, Durant on James.  Pachulia and McGee will take turns on Thompson.  About the only hole in the Warriors defense is those three guys mentioned previously going against Curry.  I don't think the Cavs big three can score enough against the Warriors to overcome the Warrior offense.  But we will see.  Stranger things have happened in sports.  Warriors caused a lot of Cavs turnovers in game one.  That is the one thing they have to fix for the next game.  Can't give away that many possessions and expect to win.

 

Jun 3, 2017 4:48pm
Hitnrun24
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All this talk of Steph Curry playing so well because he is healthy this year and he wasn't last year is pretty funnyto me. How about maybe it has to do with Durant being on the team and now that little bit of extra space you could use to help on defense has been disintegrated (pretty sure he's to thank for his newfound playoff success than his knee). Great players are always better with other great players around them and you put enough on the court and the game gets pretty easy. The best scorers always have to score against defenses heavily focused on them (and the greats still find ways to score), but they rigged it to make it almost impossible to do so now and the problem for Cleveland is that to have any shot to defend them they have to play worse players ahead of their better players because they're not all capable 2 way guys.

 

Both Kyrie and Love are guys you have to protect on defense while the Warriors only have to cover for Steph. Cleveland also played really poorly in game 1 so there is some hope, they shouldn't get killed on the glass in most games and a -16 turnover margin is impossible to overcome.

Jun 4, 2017 8:50pm
ClipperSisyphus
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I can tell the announcers and talking heads are panicked the series is going to be a sweep. ABC/ESPN/TNT will lose a lot of money is this only goes 4 games. Silver will probably have to get involved to bust up the Warriors to restore competitive balance to the league.

Jun 4, 2017 9:25pm
V-Ice
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All the Warriors did was win both home games.

Jun 4, 2017 9:45pm
Mistwell
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Uh huh...

Jun 5, 2017 5:29am
htownfan
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Man the Warriors just looked like too stacked of a team out there....Now I was see why Lebron was whining about getting more help earlier this season......

Jun 5, 2017 7:11am
Clipps
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This is just rediculously stupid. Warriors are just too good.
Jun 5, 2017 8:22am
Clipps
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ClipperSisyphus wrote:

I can tell the announcers and talking heads are panicked the series is going to be a sweep. ABC/ESPN/TNT will lose a lot of money is this only goes 4 games. Silver will probably have to get involved to bust up the Warriors to restore competitive balance to the league.

I can't see how Silver can do anything. Warriors didn't do anything illegal to build the team they have now. They drafted well, started an incredible culture, and invested time in developing draft picks. I hate them but no one can deny how great the organization has been in the last 6-7 years.
Jun 5, 2017 8:23am
Clippers1121
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Demoralizing for the Cavs when they play their asses off into the third quarter and the Warriors just laugh at them by starting to launch 28 foot three pointers.  And hitting them.  Curry and Durant are the second and third best players in the NBA which kind of negates the Cavs having the best player.  Cavs just got worn down in this game and could not keep up with the Warriors offense.  Warriors go small ball and they still have a Durant, Green, and Thompson out there who are all pretty big guys.  And Iguodala and Levingston are not small guys either.  Just a massive amount of talent all concentrated on one team and designed to hit three pointers from four of the starters on the court.  Plus, three of them are good defensive players too.  Warriors had 20 turnovers and still won by 19 points.  Agree that the networks are pissed off if this is a sweep as will every NBA fan in the country be who isn't a Warriors fan.

Obviously, Irving needs to shoot better and J.R. Smith needs to contribute a lot more for this series to be competitive.  I don't see what the Cavs can do on defense though.  Warriors just have way too much firepower for the Cavs to hold them under 120.  Not sure anybody on the planet can guard Durant and Curry is really tough for Kyrie to guard.  Just tough for any team to compete with the Warriors right now.

Jun 5, 2017 9:45am
WindsorUK
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Can ANYONE imagine this NOT being done in 4? I never would have thought that a LJ team could get swept but they are 100% out gunned. Maybe returning to Cleveland will get them back on track. It however will do nothing to derail what appears to a juggernaut-the Warriors are playing INCREDIBLE basketball. They have too many weapons- even if one or two fail, they have 3 or 4 in reserve.

 

 

 

Jun 5, 2017 9:49am
trapp76
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I think this could be a sweep now. 

Durant is a huge difference maker, he is the key to everything.

Jun 5, 2017 10:24am
clipsentuboca
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kinda makes you feel better about the Clips getting their repeated Warrior beat-downs all year. Looked competitive last night through the first half, but it was almost if GS was toying with them as it was over early in the 3rd. GS is just hugely talented and seasoned...champagne on ice, shirts printed up, get the parade route ready.

Jun 5, 2017 11:00am
V-Ice
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The refs tried to keep the Cavs in the game by calling fouls on Green and KD.

Jun 5, 2017 5:20pm
Hitnrun24
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So the Warriors have approx the 2nd (Durant), 4th (Curry), 8th (Green) and 20th (Thompson) best players in the league flanked by a top 10 (Iggy) defender, Lebron (1st) has the 15th (Kyrie) who's playing pretty bad since he is a one way player and the 30th (Love), who's been pretty good but has limitations. Just not a fair fight, too bad the 2nd and 4th best players in the league don't feel like they're good enough to carry a team on their own like most guys who have ever been that good would believe in their hearts.

 

That being said, I'd expect the Cavs role players who've been terrible to chip in when it goes home. The Warriors have stacked their team to the point where there is little pressure on any of their guys because they can have off games and still win easily. Cavs won't win with anything short of greatness from Lebron and Kyrie. 

Jun 6, 2017 9:00am
Clippers1121
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It would be a whole different series if Kyrie could guard Curry.  That would put much more pressure on the other Warriors to score.  Letting Curry get 10 boards last game while Tristin Thompson has only gotten 8 rebounds the whole series is  a disgrace.  Kyrie should at least be able to box Curry out and keep him from getting rebounds.  What they are doing to Tristin Thompson is exactly what they would do to DJ if they were playing us.  Just put a body on him at all times and keep him from getting too many rebounds.  Pachulia and McGee have big bodies and can do that type of thing.  This is why we can't beat these guys.  They use their defense to negate our most effective players.  Like putting Pachulia on DJ and Klay Thompson and Iguodala on CP3.  They score 120 because we can't defend them and we score 100 because they can defend us.  Cavs need to play great tomorrow to pull the upset.  They are a three point underdog at home.

Jun 9, 2017 8:13am
nuraman00
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WindsorUK wrote:

Are they actually ever going to PLAY the finals? There hasn't been a game, in what,  a week? This is a longer break than the all star one.

Theoretically, should the finals go 7 games, when do they finish?

 

The NBA Finals usually have a set start date.

The only time it's ever been moved up was in 2011, when both conference finals (Dallas-OKC and Miami-Chicago) ended in 5 games.

Miami-Chicago finished on May 26, and they moved the Finals from starting on a Thursday (which they normally do) June 2nd to May 31st.

Part of the reason why I think they're reluctant to move the start date is that the international media have probably already booked their flight for entry into the US, at the set date.  Last year, 280 international media members across 30 countries were live at the Finals.

In 2015, even though Houston-Golden State ended in 5 games, and Cleveland beat Atlanta in 4 games, they didn't move up the date.

So between May 27 when Golden State beat Houston, there was a layoff until Thursday June 04.

 

 

http://www.news-herald.com/article/HR/20160606/SPORTS/160609668

2000 media credentials.

280 international media members from that list, from 30 countries.

The Finals are broadcast live in 215 countries in 49 languages.

Comparing it to the World Series:

* 182 countries will broadcast it in 2017

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/218189896/2017-world-baseball-classic-to-be-broadcast-in-182-countries--territories/

* This seems down from 2010:

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/15862114/

More than 200 countries in 18 languages.

Comparing it to the SuperBowl:

* 180 countries in 25 languages:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/american-football/2016/02/24/nfl-super-bowl-by-numbers/


I wish I knew how many international media members attended the World Series and SuperBowl live, like we know for the NBA Finals.  And how many media credentials are issued for the World Series and SuperBowl.

 

* NHL:

I can't find how many languages or countries broadcast the Stanley Cup Finals.

Or how many international media members are live at the Stanley Cup Finals.

 

@Dyce, can you help?  You're good at finding specific information.

Jun 9, 2017 7:48pm
Mistwell
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Apparently Lebron did not get the memo on how they're supposed to get swept. 

Jun 9, 2017 7:52pm
nuraman00
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Mistwell wrote:

Apparently Lebron did not get the memo on how they're supposed to get swept. 

 

It's cheating when Lebron James can post up to within 2 feet of the rim, then make a behind the back pass which eventually leads to a bucket.

No one else can make a pass like that in the middle of a post up.

I agree with Jeff Van Gundy.  "I'm giving him an assist anyways."

 

Jun 9, 2017 8:18pm
tullabye
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ESPN writer says Ref's trying to airbrush history

Jun 9, 2017 8:15pm
tullabye
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Ref gate

Jun 9, 2017 8:57pm
Mistwell
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This is not the refs. Cavs are on fire.