Ballmer: Clippers moved Griffin to adapt to 'modern NBA'

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#1 Feb 24, 2018 11:54am
JGlanton
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Ballmer: Clippers moved Griffin to adapt to 'modern NBA'

"(Griffin) is obviously a superstar player," Ballmer said Saturday at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in Boston, according to ESPN's Kevin Arnovitz. "But if you look at what happened injury-wise, if you look at the kind of chemistry we were getting on our team, the thing you can see at the high level with the numbers when I started - one guy got all the assists, one guy got all the points, and one guy got all the rebounds.

"It's not all quite that way, but I think in the modern NBA, we were seeing it more and more - there's a greater distribution of responsibility."

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1492396-ballmer-clippers-moved-griffin-to-adapt-to-modern-nba

Feb 24, 2018 4:13pm
VFHS
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So when's Doc getting fired, then? If we're trying to adapt to the modern NBA, there's no excuse to keep a coach who's stuck in the past.

Feb 24, 2018 4:31pm
Hitnrun24
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Blake's a talented player, but the rules now make him inconsequential to winning. He doesn't appear to have changed life in Detroit, which for the people who regard him a top 15-20 player, we'd see most guys considered on that level of player have that impact.

 

And can anyone really say they've seen any drop off for us since the trade? It kind of sucks, because I want players like Blake to matter but they don't and you can't pay 37m to a guy who doesn't change your trajectory.

Feb 24, 2018 4:40pm
gilp5
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Hitnrun24 wrote:

Blake's a talented player, but the rules now make him inconsequential to winning. He doesn't appear to have changed life in Detroit, which for the people who regard him a top 15-20 player, we'd see most guys considered on that level of player have that impact.

 

And can anyone really say they've seen any drop off for us since the trade? It kind of sucks, because I want players like Blake to matter but they don't and you can't pay 37m to a guy who doesn't change your trajectory.

+1 - this trade is looking better and better for the Clippers.

Feb 24, 2018 7:40pm
Olowokandi34
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Go to the Pistons forum vhfs, some of their members are comparing him to the Josh Smith run in detroit.  

Feb 24, 2018 7:50pm
BlakeG4MVP
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I would have done what ballmer done. Try to sign Blake and then trade  his asZ ASAP to get some asset. Blake’s game is declining every year . 

Feb 24, 2018 8:12pm
Mistwell
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From the Pistons forum:

Jangul 02:27 PM 9 Hours Ago

Blake Griffin has been objecively terrible the last 3 games. 5/19 from the field, 1 assist to 6 turnovers from our highest paid player against Boston. That's completely unacceptable. This team is not going to overcome that. When your individual performance is that bad, I'm not going to accept the system or coaching as an excuse. No system forces you to miss open shots, take bad ones, or turnover the ball to that degree. He had a week off and he didn't look energetic or crisp at all out there.

There was always risk in acquiring him due to injury history, but I could accept that. When you build a team around superstars, the risk of injury is always magnified and always catastrophic. It's out of a team's control, really, as Jimmy Butler reminds us. 

But what I absolutely can't accept is consistently bad performance , lack of hustle, or lack of leadership from a dude making Supermax money. If we needed another good role player, we might as well have kept Tobias. Griffin , unlike Tobias, is paid to lead and set the tone for this team every night. That's what he was brought here for. He can't hide behind the performance of role players as an excuse. He is supposed to make the lower paid players better. A 30 million dollar player has to be a difference maker. If he's incapable of doing that every night, then SVG made a fatal mistake in personnel evaluation that's ultimately going to cost him his job.

Feb 24, 2018 8:14pm
Mistwell
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And another:

THE PISTONS 03:58 PM 8 Hours Ago

It's way early...but some of Griffin's performance is reminiscent of Josh Smith in some ways.

Smith was an elite athlete early in his career and a great defender. He got here and was none of those things and jacked up a bunch of 3 point shots.

I still think the Pistons can get things right offensively here. I do think Reggie will help in big ways.

Really Stanley and Ish not being able to shoot from distance hurts.

One has to expect Boston who has a great coach being able to game plan against us after the All-Star break.

Ultimately though, the players have been shuffled around here a lot over SVG's time here...and the results are the same.

 

________

I agree with Jangul. I think the who 'Ish can't shoot 3's so it's making his guy sag off and double Griffin talk' is a bit overblown. Griffin is nearly 7 foot tall. Having a small PG double him shouldn't matter to this level.

What does matter? Prior to this season Griffin's season high for 3's was 1.9 per game. The lowest he ever shot was 49.3% from the field.

This season, he's shooting 6.2 3's a game with us and his fg% is 38.9% here. His 2p% here is 43.6%. With the Clippers this year, it was 48.8%. So even on 2 point shots he's doing worse here.

But, he shouldn't be jacking up 6+ 3 point shots a game as he's never done that in his career before this year.

He's also getting to the free throw line a lot less here than most years in his career.

Feb 24, 2018 8:58pm
Olowokandi34
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"But what I absolutely can't accept is consistently bad performance , lack of hustle, or lack of leadership from a dude making Supermax money."

Only took 9 games for a Piston fan to realize the lack of hustle.  

Feb 24, 2018 9:41pm
Clipps
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Olowokandi34 wrote:

"But what I absolutely can't accept is consistently bad performance , lack of hustle, or lack of leadership from a dude making Supermax money."

Only took 9 games for a Piston fan to realize the lack of hustle.  

Yup, that was the superstar franchise player that we gave up for a bunch of scrubs and a draft pick.

Feb 24, 2018 9:43pm
Clipps
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VFHS wrote:

So when's Doc getting fired, then? If we're trying to adapt to the modern NBA, there's no excuse to keep a coach who's stuck in the past.

Doc is adjusting to the loss of our franchise player.

Feb 24, 2018 9:46pm
JGlanton
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I hope the Pistons fans weren't surprised by Blake's high turnovers, low shooting percentage, and below-average rebounding and steals (hustle).  That would be naive. That's Blake's profile. That's why he's a below average PF and one of the most overrated stars in the league.  It's not like he was going to suddenly change during a flight from LA to Detroit.

Feb 24, 2018 9:46pm
Mistwell
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JGlanton wrote:

I hope the Pistons fans weren't surprised by Blake's high turnovers, low shooting percentage, and below-average rebounding.  That would be naive. That's Blake's profile. That's why he's a below average PF and one of the most overrated stars in the league.  It's not like he was going to suddenly change during a flight from LA to Detroit.

BG is not a below average PF. Come on now. 

Feb 24, 2018 9:48pm
JGlanton
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Mistwell wrote:

JGlanton wrote:

I hope the Pistons fans weren't surprised by Blake's high turnovers, low shooting percentage, and below-average rebounding.  That would be naive. That's Blake's profile. That's why he's a below average PF and one of the most overrated stars in the league.  It's not like he was going to suddenly change during a flight from LA to Detroit.

BG is not a below average PF. Come on now. 

Absolutely.  He's below average at almost all things, except that he shoots a lot and passes a lot, which are negated by poor shooting and high turnovers.

Feb 24, 2018 10:12pm
Clipps
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Mistwell wrote:

JGlanton wrote:

I hope the Pistons fans weren't surprised by Blake's high turnovers, low shooting percentage, and below-average rebounding.  That would be naive. That's Blake's profile. That's why he's a below average PF and one of the most overrated stars in the league.  It's not like he was going to suddenly change during a flight from LA to Detroit.

BG is not a below average PF. Come on now. 

Tobias can’t be much worse.

Feb 24, 2018 10:56pm
JGlanton
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Clipps wrote:

Tobias can’t be much worse.

Tobias is a more efficient shooter and has lower negatives.  

Feb 25, 2018 12:13am
Dyce
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Blake simply broke down.  

Feb 25, 2018 5:02am
Shaliq
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BlakeG4MVP wrote:

I would have done what ballmer done. Try to sign Blake and then trade  his asZ ASAP to get some asset. Blake’s game is declining every year . 

Yeah me too, and wow - amazing thread! I also love the trade more and more with each day!

Feb 25, 2018 8:54am
SamIAm19
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Doc killed Blake by trying to turn him into Kevin Garnett offensively

Feb 25, 2018 9:05am
clipsentuboca
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sucks to be Detroit, feel bad for their fans. Got fleeced. Also hope Blake doesn’t go off the deep end as he’s becoming more and more a likely candidate. 

Feb 25, 2018 9:30am
VFHS
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Clipps wrote:

VFHS wrote:

So when's Doc getting fired, then? If we're trying to adapt to the modern NBA, there's no excuse to keep a coach who's stuck in the past.

Doc is adjusting to the loss of our franchise player.

Doc thinks Austin is our franchise player, so no, he hasn't adjusted at all.

Feb 25, 2018 9:33am
V-Ice
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 I agree w/ the statement that Doc ruined BG23's career. He was being an unstoppable PF when he went into Beast mode, but then he wanted to expand his game. I love BG23 to death, however it was time to move on. Also look at the statement about team chemistry.. Something was not right in the locker room. Poor character issue's w/ BG23.

Feb 25, 2018 9:49am
Clipps
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JGlanton wrote:

Clipps wrote:

Tobias can’t be much worse.

Tobias is a more efficient shooter and has lower negatives.  

He's a lot more cheap and came with 2 extra bodies and a draft pick.

Feb 25, 2018 9:49am
Clipps
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JGlanton wrote:

Clipps wrote:

Tobias can’t be much worse.

Tobias is a more efficient shooter and has lower negatives.  

He's a lot more cheap and came with 2 extra bodies and a draft pick.

Feb 25, 2018 9:53am
Clipps
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SamIAm19 wrote:

Doc killed Blake by trying to turn him into Kevin Garnett offensively

Half of a Kevin Garnett offensively would have been nice. 

Feb 25, 2018 11:33am
JGlanton
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Clipps wrote:

JGlanton wrote:

Clipps wrote:

Tobias can’t be much worse.

Tobias is a more efficient shooter and has lower negatives.  

He's a lot more cheap and came with 2 extra bodies and a draft pick.

laughlaughlaugh

Feb 25, 2018 12:22pm
Olowokandi34
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Pistons about to lose to Charlotte.  They have lost 5 of their last 6.  Fire Stan

 

Feb 25, 2018 4:42pm
Jimbo
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Olowokandi34 wrote:

Pistons about to lose to Charlotte.  They have lost 5 of their last 6.  Fire Stan

 

Keep Stan the rest of the season. We have their draft pick. When the season ends, I could care less what Detroit does. 

Feb 25, 2018 5:09pm
Olowokandi34
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Jimbo wrote:

Olowokandi34 wrote:

Pistons about to lose to Charlotte.  They have lost 5 of their last 6.  Fire Stan

 

Keep Stan the rest of the season. We have their draft pick. When the season ends, I could care less what Detroit does. 

Yes!  It would be the 12th pick right now.  Work your magic Jerry

Feb 25, 2018 5:32pm
Dyce
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It's not an issue of playing style or coaching. The problem is his body can't do what it used to do.
Feb 25, 2018 7:23pm
Mistwell
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SamIAm19 wrote:

Doc killed Blake by trying to turn him into Kevin Garnett offensively

Pretty sure Blake deserves lots of blame for Blake. I think Blake deserves blame for slacking off on the regular season and then only really focusing and playing hard during the playoffs. I think Blake deserves plenty of blame for getting distracted on a routine basis by his personal life. I think Blake deserves plenty of blame for punching his friend and trainer over a girl. Last I checked, Doc had nothing to do with any of those issues.

But I am sure you will find a way to pretend he did. Or Austin. Because unlike Blake, you have a single minded focus :)

Feb 25, 2018 7:52pm
pro100
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Detroit looks like shit right now. They're making Jerry West look like the genius that he is times 100

Feb 25, 2018 7:53pm
mannycoon
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He's done a lot of work on his shooting, but he could probably have put more effort into improving his finesse near the basket, both in terms being able to finish without needing to jump over everyone and getting more FTs.  He's able to get near the basket and he's very strong and has good touch, he should better at it.  Also while he's a much better at shooting three's, he's still not actually good at it and is taking way more than he should and seems content to settle for shots other teams give him, even if they aren't good shots.

I do feel like the critique of him not fitting with a greater distribution of responsibility is a little weird though, he's a better playmaker and rebounder than both our current fowards and they all have issues defensively; they are better shooters, but he is more well rounded.  Saying he's too high risk because his health or his weak by his standards of play relative to his contract or wanting more shooting make more sense.

Feb 25, 2018 9:00pm
Mistwell
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mannycoon wrote:

I do feel like the critique of him not fitting with a greater distribution of responsibility is a little weird though, he's a better playmaker and rebounder than both our current forwards and they all have issues defensivel

Harris has averaged 7.5 rebounds per 36 minutes since joining the Clippers. Blake has averaged 7.6 rebounds per 36 minutes since joining Detroit. That is essentially a push. Harris' rebounds have gone up since joining the Clippers, and Blakes have gone down, and that likely means it was overall team composition and playing style for the team that was a major factor in driving Blake's rebounding and now Harris' rebounding. Blake's assist numbers remain higher though (3.2 vs 5.6). 

For Defensive Win Shares (a dubious stat) both Blake and Harris have a 0.3. Dano has a 0.4. Not sure I would give much credence to that stat though. 

Feb 26, 2018 7:41am
SamIAm19
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Mistwell wrote:

SamIAm19 wrote:

Doc killed Blake by trying to turn him into Kevin Garnett offensively

Pretty sure Blake deserves lots of blame for Blake. I think Blake deserves blame for slacking off on the regular season and then only really focusing and playing hard during the playoffs. I think Blake deserves plenty of blame for getting distracted on a routine basis by his personal life. I think Blake deserves plenty of blame for punching his friend and trainer over a girl. Last I checked, Doc had nothing to do with any of those issues.

But I am sure you will find a way to pretend he did. Or Austin. Because unlike Blake, you have a single minded focus :)

 

Like how you are always attacking me because my comments "bother" you

Feb 26, 2018 9:21am
Clippers1121
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Griffin went 10 for 15 from two point range yesterday against the Hornets.  And he went 5 for 19 against the Celtics.  So it seems that he does OK on his high percentage shots against certain defenses and against other defenses he has no post game and gets totally shut down.  Frustrating.  I feel bad for him.  Even if he is on the Pistons I want him to be the star he is supposed to be.  Four rebounds yesterday is totally unacceptable.  Especially since they got out-rebounded by six as a team.  Same thing that was happening here.  I think his leg injuries have killled a lot of his athleticism.  Lots of similarities to Marc Gasol.  These types of players shoot from three, pass a lot, but don't dominate in the paint anymore.

Feb 26, 2018 9:38am
V-Ice
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^but he didn’t even go to the free throw line all... how can a PF not go to line at least once...

Feb 26, 2018 9:51am
JGlanton
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Blake's 20 pts on 18 shots is a little below average for a PF.  His 6 TOs and 5 PFs are huge negatives, and his 4 REBs are very subpar for a PF.

Blake's Points over Par per 48 is -3.7 for Detroit, so he has been doing his part in helping them lose.

Feb 26, 2018 9:52am
Clippers1121
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I missed that.  That is weird.  If he is taking it strong to the basket he should have gotten fouled a few times.  I did not see most of the game.  But his stats look pretty weak in both the Boston and the Charlotte games.

Feb 26, 2018 10:02am
ClipperSisyphus
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Blake's PER at Detroit is down to 16. Ouch! Unfortunately, his career will regress to Amare Stoudemire's--lost athleticism but a huge contract. Knowing Blake's temperament, I would hate to be his best friend right now.

Feb 26, 2018 10:07am
Mistwell
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SamIAm19 wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

SamIAm19 wrote:

Doc killed Blake by trying to turn him into Kevin Garnett offensively

Pretty sure Blake deserves lots of blame for Blake. I think Blake deserves blame for slacking off on the regular season and then only really focusing and playing hard during the playoffs. I think Blake deserves plenty of blame for getting distracted on a routine basis by his personal life. I think Blake deserves plenty of blame for punching his friend and trainer over a girl. Last I checked, Doc had nothing to do with any of those issues.

But I am sure you will find a way to pretend he did. Or Austin. Because unlike Blake, you have a single minded focus :)

 

Like how you are always attacking me because my comments "bother" you

I am "attacking" you? Oh poor baby. Are your feelings hurt? 

I am not attacking you dude. I like you. I am pointing out your bullshit, just like you point out my bullshit. Pretty sure you can take it. 

Feb 26, 2018 11:31am
SamIAm19
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Mistwell wrote:

SamIAm19 wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

SamIAm19 wrote:

Doc killed Blake by trying to turn him into Kevin Garnett offensively

Pretty sure Blake deserves lots of blame for Blake. I think Blake deserves blame for slacking off on the regular season and then only really focusing and playing hard during the playoffs. I think Blake deserves plenty of blame for getting distracted on a routine basis by his personal life. I think Blake deserves plenty of blame for punching his friend and trainer over a girl. Last I checked, Doc had nothing to do with any of those issues.

But I am sure you will find a way to pretend he did. Or Austin. Because unlike Blake, you have a single minded focus :)

 

Like how you are always attacking me because my comments "bother" you

I am "attacking" you? Oh poor baby. Are your feelings hurt? 

I am not attacking you dude. I like you. I am pointing out your bullshit, just like you point out my bullshit. Pretty sure you can take it. 

 

Liar

Feb 26, 2018 11:42am
Mistwell
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SamIAm19 wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

SamIAm19 wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

SamIAm19 wrote:

Doc killed Blake by trying to turn him into Kevin Garnett offensively

Pretty sure Blake deserves lots of blame for Blake. I think Blake deserves blame for slacking off on the regular season and then only really focusing and playing hard during the playoffs. I think Blake deserves plenty of blame for getting distracted on a routine basis by his personal life. I think Blake deserves plenty of blame for punching his friend and trainer over a girl. Last I checked, Doc had nothing to do with any of those issues.

But I am sure you will find a way to pretend he did. Or Austin. Because unlike Blake, you have a single minded focus :)

 

Like how you are always attacking me because my comments "bother" you

I am "attacking" you? Oh poor baby. Are your feelings hurt? 

I am not attacking you dude. I like you. I am pointing out your bullshit, just like you point out my bullshit. Pretty sure you can take it. 

 

Liar

If I am lying about thinking you can take it...does that mean you can't take it, or does that mean I think you can't take it even though I said I think you can? :)

Feb 26, 2018 11:45am
trapp76
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Great trade for us. Knew it would be. It will only look better as time goes on.

Don't blame Doc or anyone else for Blake.................blame Blake for Blake.

CP and DJ were/are just fine playing for Doc. Doc has his drawbacks, but Blake wasn't one of them.

Feb 26, 2018 11:54am
Mistwell
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I do think people are using a small sample of games with a new team, all while Blake's personal life is in massive turmoil, to assume way too much about his future projections. Right now, yes, it looks like a good trade for us. A year or two from now, who knows. I think it's way too early to be drawing these conclusions. 

All that said, I am pleased we have Tobias Harris. And, I am liking Bradley more than I expected to (though his injury degrades that a bit) and of course I would love it if that Detroit pick turns top-10 (but not top-4). 

Feb 26, 2018 11:57am
Hitnrun24
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Once you start making excuses that a guy needs all this or that to be successful chances are the problem is with the player. The direction of the league coupled with Blake's lost athleticism makes him a really tough fit for teams.

 

Blake needs to be on a team with a 3 point shooting Center who can defend the rim and 3 other shooters with one of them being able to drive to the basket consistently. Good luck finding all that with him taking up a third of your cap. Tobias may not be a better all around player, but when you look at all the teams what team would he not fit on?

Feb 26, 2018 1:49pm
babyradar01
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Who gives a shit about Blake. It was a very good trade and if things go as planned we'll be back in the WC race in a couple years.

Feb 26, 2018 2:42pm
trapp76
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I feel like we still would have won this trade even if it was just Harris for Blake straight up. Throw in Bradley plus the first rounder and we win it in a landslide.

Feb 26, 2018 2:50pm
JGlanton
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Mistwell wrote:

I do think people are using a small sample of games with a new team, 

It is a small sample size, as is Tobias Harris' with the Clippers. It will probably level out a bit.  We have years of records to understand the strengths and weaknesses of both players.  With Detroit, Blake's weaknesses are amplified but they are the same weaknesses he already had including low FG%, high TO's, mediocre rebounding and defense. With the Clippers, Tobias is playing very close to his career averages, which is better than he was playing at Detroit so far this year.

Feb 26, 2018 6:56pm
gilp5
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Detroit lost again tonight. Griffin 12 points/1 rebound/5 assists

Feb 26, 2018 7:08pm
Hitnrun24
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Pistons fans gotta be losing their minds right about now. 12 points on 12 shots and 1 rebound, yikes.